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  1. #1
    Administrator Yellowcab's Avatar
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    RALETC Laser Jammer Meet RESULTS April 2014

    Here are some highlights.
    Car without any jammers and with out Veil, LIDAR used DALA: 3900 feet
    Same car with Veil on headlights and fog lights no license plate: 1300 feet

    LI 8.15 vs. Truspeed S now is JTG. A big improvement from 8.14
    LI 8.15 vs. DET Compact: No alert no jam
    LI 8.15 vs DALA #5 no alert no jam
    LI 8.15 vs Stalker XLR alert no jam
    ALP vs. DALA #5 alert no jam
    ALP vs. DET Compact: Winner: ALP by a knockout.
    LI 8.15: We did not experience the TSS followed by IPT when shot with PL4 and PL3 and we shot the TSS for the first half of the run waited a few seconds and then shot it with a pl3 or pl4.


    The shooter was located 41 feet from the drivers side of the testing vehicle. Course length for testing of laser jammers was approx. 1,000 feet.
    For Veil testing the shooter was on axis. The length of the road was approx. 3,900 from end to shooter. Driver of test vehicle did not always turnaround at end of road, but would turn around approx. 3,000 feet to shooter.
    On rear shots, Punch Throughs of under 100 feet are considered "green"



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    One of the tests we ran was an on axis TSS vs. LI 8.15 to see if the TSS would JTG instead of giving routine PTs under 300 feet as the previous firmware. Firmware 8.15 resolves this issue.
    DALA #5 has not been recorded or seen by any laser jammer manufacturer.

    Veil reduced PTs on a non laser jammer equipped car. As a rule Veil did not protect well under 1000 feet. If you are routinely targeted over 1500 feet, Veil would work very well.
    PL4 without veil 2400 feet. with Veil 1300 feet
    Stalker XLR without Veil 1300 feet., with Veil 800 feet
    Last edited by Yellowcab; 04-15-2014 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Labeled charts better, entered additional data for DALA#5 and DET Compact

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Holla's Avatar
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    Nice Job on the test! Veil is pretty impressive by itself and a great way to compliment a vehicle with jammers!
    Last edited by Holla; 04-13-2014 at 10:05 PM.
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  5. #3
    Administrator Yellowcab's Avatar
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    Veil results:

    Shooter was on axis. No jammers on car.

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    * LIDAR WAS SILENT UNTIL PT.
    Last edited by Yellowcab; 04-13-2014 at 10:04 PM.

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    Great job with the test! That's a lot of work, a lot of guns, and a lot of runs. Impressive performance by the various jammers.

    We ran an older Stalker in our test today too and it got some PT's as well. It's a pesky little sucker!

    We actually did a pass shooting it against a Veiled car and were getting IPT's all the way, but we only started the run 1300 feet away, so it may have done better had we started from a longer distance. It's impressive to see its performance in your testing from roughly 800 feet on up.

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  9. #5
    Senior Member NYSpeederPVM's Avatar
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    Having a blast in Phoenix but wish I could have somehow gone today. Maybe a mini meet soon near the original location?

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowcab View Post
    Veil results:

    Shooter was on axis. No jammers on car.

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    * LIDAR WAS SILENT UNTIL PT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holla View Post
    Nice Job on the test! Veil is pretty impressive by itself and a great way to compliment a vehicle with jammers!
    You got it. Been my message all along! I feel these guys gave me a really thorough test of Veil, in fact, its most through ever!. First time coming up against these awesome new lasers, too.

    Keep in mind, my metallic silver 5 series is like a worst case scenario so the reductions were limited by that primarily. More reasonable cars would have done better. Treating other areas with Veil beyond the lights made significant improvements beyond the 1200-1300 range when only the lights were treated.

    Those who use 3M wraps on front treated with Veil should see significant further reductions.

    The one 2300' Stalker run looks way out of place. That feels like something else was picked up (ie; scatter reflection or the one FOG that wasn't coated? Was a speed noted? Did it happen after that one reading?). CM at ~600 looks right, but our HL shots should have always been better than CM and the earlier Stalker models have been some of our best guns, even on that vehicle.

    One a car like this with those kinds of colors against these guns that I saw yesterday I would want to use actives in combinations. I was pleased, however, that Veil was indeed effective against these lastest ECCM guns that the LIs proven ineffective against. As I have always maintained a defense-in-depth approach will always be the best approach even with vehicles that have two or three heads in front. Clearly no one CM was perfect.

    However, from what I saw with my own two eyes, the ALP is without question was the new kid to beat! Its' performance (while not perfect) decimated all (other) comers. OK, OK. I have yet to see a K40 actually do much of anything in my years of attending these sorts of events and good luck finding anything about them on SML's site as they seem to always have something in the works that is not "ready" for testing.

    Didn't see an HP- 905, either. That's going on the vehicle along side the ALPs. I don't see much of a reason at this point to even install LIs. DALAs are just next door now in DE and MD, so what would be the point? And the older jammers/shifters are coming off the car. Too many NAs from them. Their time has come and gone.

    Valentine 1, as always did an exceptional job. The Whistler did very well and a new Cobra, I am testing, bested the Max in laser detection.

    Very impressive and very well conducted test! I learned a lot from you guys! These guys deliver the goods and thanks for showing the results for exactly what they were! It also proved the extreme importance of perfectly aligning the jamming heads during your install and making sure they stay that way, should be routinely checked!

    Tom, of BRD, it was great finally meeting you after all of these years! Nice ride, BTW. Your black sedan is definitely more stealth than my metallic silver. Maybe YC's right. Not sure of a Delorean though. I think a Cayman R (non-metallic black or dark ruby red) is more my speed (or maybe a Rapide/QuattroPorte).

    Great job everyone and look forward to meeting up again!

    I would love to see a motorcycle at one of these events. Should be a great candidate for Veiling.

    VG
    Last edited by Veil Guy; 04-14-2014 at 07:15 AM.

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  12. #7
    Senior Member radargeek's Avatar
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    So, does that mean 8.15 doesn't solve the XLR issue then?

    Hopefully someone had the foresight to capture the pulse pattern of DALA #5 to send to AL. I thought they had a generic algo now.

    Was there a DALA #3 and #4?
    Last edited by radargeek; 04-14-2014 at 06:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radargeek View Post
    So, does that mean 8.15 doesn't solve the XLR issue then?

    Hopefully someone had the foresight to capture the pulse pattern of DALA #5 to send to AL. I thought they had a generic algo now.

    Was there a DALA #3 and #4?
    8.15 doesn't solve the XLR issue.Instant PT,also Li no alert to ver 1and ver 2 compact instant PT.
    Last edited by Radarrob; 04-14-2014 at 07:14 AM.
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  14. #9
    Administrator Yellowcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radargeek View Post
    So, does that mean 8.15 doesn't solve the XLR issue then?

    Hopefully someone had the foresight to capture the pulse pattern of DALA #5 to send to AL. I thought they had a generic algo now.

    Was there a DALA #3 and #4?
    DALA #3 is the same pulse train as DALA#2. Someone forgot to bring DALA#4.

    The pulse train of DALA #5 is very different from previous DALAs and not the same as the Compact. My feeling is that AL changed some things in the firmware from the beta that Mirage tested and Sunday's test was the first test of this firmware vs. this DALA. If we would have given AL this DALA, I feel we wouldn't have had this issue. They haven't even seen a recording of this DALA. We will see what they will do and of course there will be more testing in the future. I know that this DALA can be jammed.

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    Senior Member RedRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowcab View Post
    Here are some highlights.
    Car without any jammers and with out Veil, LIDAR used DALA: 3900 feet
    Same car with Veil on headlights and fog lights no license plate: 1300 feet
    Quote Originally Posted by TurboDriver View Post
    Well Color Me Impressed.....that is quite significant !
    Quote Originally Posted by mirage View Post
    I agree this was truly impressive.
    Well then,let me add some "icing-on-the-cake" to something I observed while sitting on the Starting Line(having completed my run) near the Shooters & waiting for those behind me to make their approaching runs coming at the Shooters.As we all well know,the (VR) V1 is an excellent Laser sensor.I always leave my V1 on during testing & I observed this every time Veil Guy made a run.The V1 would remain silent until VG was much,much closer than I would have expected for the V1 to do its job regarding refection return from the Lidar gun.There must have been considerable absorption taking place b/c the V1 remained silent... & not until VG got quite close did the V1 finally get enough reflected IR to activate an alert.
    Last edited by RedRocket; 04-14-2014 at 07:47 AM.

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